To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Falcon3 Mailing list) From: devnull@onion.rain.com (Falcon3 Mailing list) Reply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Falcon3 Mailing list) Sender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Falcon3 Mailing list) Errors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com Return-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Falcon3 Mailing list) Precedence: bulk Bcc: falcon3-outgoing Subject: Falcon3 Digest V4 : I81 Falcon3 Digest Volume 4 : Issue 81 Sat Oct 9 11:57:35 PDT 1993 Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles Send submissions to "falcon3@onion.rain.com" Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] and mirrored on cactus.org in /pub/falcon3 Today's Topics: Re: KP5 key in MIG29 cisko@d0tokensun.fnal.gov (Greg Cis BABBLINGS..... MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU Track View "Rules of Engagement" jim@world.std.com (James D. McNamar MiG--RFM & Landing jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) Setting Trim att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From: cisko@d0tokensun.fnal.gov (Greg Cisko) Subject: Re: KP5 key in MIG29 >From: Chera Bekker >Subject: Re: KP5 key in MIG2 >Same here, about 8 times out of ten, the KP 5 puts me seriously out of trim. >I haven't figured out under what circumstances it does that, but I have the >impression that it happens more often at high speeds. But then again, it could >be that the effect is more pronounced there so you notice it more often. Well, even though I haven't had much time in the MIG, here is what I noticed. I never re-trim during BFM. Most of trouble I origionaly had, was trying to re-trim the plane all the time. I feel you can get OVER CONCERNED about this. The only time trimming really would do any good is if your speed is constant. Most of my BFM if flown with changing speeds (I was never good enough, at energy management). I did notice that what seemed like an "out of trim plane", settled down once the cruising speed returned to how the plane was trimmed. So always hitting KP5 will get you into ALOT of trouble if 1) your speed isn't constant. 2) you didn't release your previous trimm settings [*]. I'm starting to believe that trimming is MOST important during long cruises. I really do like the MIG's flight model. Especially where you can change altitude by changing the throttle setting /speed. The most important thing to remember is that the trim setting is only good for a specific speed. I think :-) >Has anyone checked if the KP 5 works better/worse depending on the kind of >joystick you have. I have noticed that my cheapo joystick give mildly >fluctuating input during the calibration phase. especially in postions close to >the center setting. I haven't noticed (yet) any problems during flight. Maybee >the trimming problem is the first. My CH Flightstick had "fluctuations" near the center too. I think what you describe is a "feature" of the MIG flight model rather than a problem. Greg "JAGUAR" Cisko _________________ __ \ * (0 ___ / | $ *@ (BOOM!) -===|============ @ @#$% <-<<< - - - - - - - [==\__| \| / ^& *( ------------------------------- From: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU Subject: BABBLINGS..... A repsonse to some notes and ramblings hehehehehe >>You can do quite well without using Track view- all my dogfights have been >>done without using Track during the engagement. In a recent tournament I >Yes you can do quite well, so can alot of others. But, track view should >be an option for those that want to use it. Just ask Howard Bournstein :-) Well, ummm, errrr....It is a computer sim and in my opinion whatever floats a persons boat is what they should use. The sim itself limits the PC pilots SA by not connecting to a personal super whizzo G simulators and tactical feed back enhancer. Views out the window are bad (well, not THAT bad :-) and Padlock is OK. I really tend to like padlock. I would say that using track view is no more cheating in this sim than say using the Q to identify what you are locked on to. To me, these features just make up for the limitations a desktop pilot has over the real pilot. In a sense, I would think (without getting into a serious opinion war) that flying a real 16 in an engagement would be *easier* than F3, if just for SA alone (not getting into the effects of G's again :-) Visualizing a 3-D world while my eyes are 3 feet from the monitor (monitor radiation you know :-0 ) just never really happened for me. I guess that is where the *really* good pilots stand out from the good. >MIG-29: > I just got done installing & test flying. Now I know why MIG29 >pilots think they have a superior plane. YEEHA! Strangely, none of the >problems that have been mentioned, showed up. Flying in "REALISTIC" >mode didn't seem too bad either. Rudder control at 600+ knots seemed >like an interesting concept. I'll keep flying & probably crash & burn >eventually :-) >Greg Cisko Well give it time! :-) Seriously, this goes all the way back to the first release of F3 and the A patch. I remember some ugly wars over whether bugs are present or not. I guess hardware configs and black magic just make things work better on some systems than others. I have seen alot of talk over the joystick routines. For me the plane rolls like crazy to the left and slower to the right. Reversing the calibration routine helped a little. There still is a 3/4 dead area around the center of my stick that I just do not beleive is a feature. Even at corner velocity the plane will not pull up quickly. The "superior nose authority" Daron Stinnet (sp?) spoke of just isn't there for me. Again it varies, but seeing videos of the 29 it seems those guys can pull to vertical on a dime where I am pegging my stick mumbling "come on! up up up" There are other things too. My coolie hat has a mind of its own. In Mig 29 it decides when it wants to work. Lately it has been on vacation I guess and refuses to work. Other sims are more demanding and insist it reports in for duty whenever I fire them up. Hmmmm Mig 29 comms does not work for me just yet. Enough said. Actually I really like Mig. I have made it to day 6 with little heartburn and have a surprising success ratio. We are really pushing the Israelies back. It really is a lot of fun. But on the other hand I am going to call a spade a spade and say it has problems. Mostly in the control of the craft. I spoke with SH last night and they have a patch in the works, no date was given. -SH also said they have a patch for Tornado, again no date given. C'mon SH, lets get on the stick. -In regards to Heinz-Bernds (sp?) comments about the Tornado compression utility...I agree, I use that dead time to grab a beer or use the head ;-} For myself, I don't think I ever wished for compression. The scenery is so detailed I just like to fly and look out the window :-) -Ok, I have written several notes regarding comms to SH and have not gotten a response in the last 4 weeks. I mentioned that others on the net were reporting similar things (no references). I guess they hate me for bitching about the misinformation I was given regarding the shipping of Mig 29. I ordered over-night, cust. service said it went out over night, I took a day off to receive it (have to :-( It arrived 4 days later UPS ground. Has anyone else not been getting responses from SH? -I am sure this is in some FAQ somewhere. But to restate for all to see.. If a person has a SOUND BLASTER 16, install Falcon3, then delete FALCON3.DEF You will now be able to run Falcon3. Spent an hour on the phone with a friend last night until I gave up and called SH for help. -If you have a Pratical Peripherals 14.4fx, Input the modem commands into one box instead of sequentially as the Mig manual hints. Well that is about all I have. Just wanted to liven up the forum and keep the Onion warm hehehe Scott "now my fingers hurt" in WV Morgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu P.S. How many more ascii faces can I get in here? Lets see.... :-> :-\ [:-] {;-0 :-p :-d :^) :^} :^{) :-[ 8^} 8+] 8-o 8*X B-) ------------------------------- From: jim@world.std.com (James D. McNamara) Subject: Track View "Rules of Engagement" The Falcon 3.0 competition ladder on Compu$erve also dis-allows "Track View" in their ROE. This is primarily because BLACK/RED OUT are NOT modeled in Track View! Therefore, if you have BLACK/RED OUT set "on" and have tunnel vision like a flea inside a straw, popping out to Track View could give you a decided advantage against your opponent while pulling 9.0G in a dogfight. Try it ;) --Jim ``Mel'' McNamara ------------------------------- From: jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) Subject: MiG--RFM & Landing I was looking at the excellent Red Flag missions for the Falcon that were uploaded to onion.rain, I forget who it was that wrote them and don't have the info near at hand. This got me thinking, it would be nice to get a collection of RFM's for the '29, the few files included by SH are definately inadequate. So, if you've got some MiG RFM's that you think we'd enjoy, how about sending them to onion.rain? I'm sure Jeff wouldn't mind accomodating a collection of RFM's..? Has anyone found a good procedure for landing the '29? The info included by SH is, once again, lacking. I'd be interested to see how others are doing. j ------------------------------- From: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net Subject: Setting Trim Chera Bekker writes: >Same here, about 8 times out of ten, the KP 5 puts me seriously out of trim. >I haven't figured out under what circumstances it does that, but I have the >impression that it happens more often at high speeds. But then again, it could >be that the effect is more pronounced there so you notice it more often. My path to onion.rain.com means this reply is probably about a week old. Sorry! The answer to this question should be in the FAQ, if it isn't already. I already explained it in csipgf-s, and I think I mentioned it here once, but here it is again. When you press the keypad "5" key to set trim to your current joystick position, it does not take into account your current trim setting. Therefore, it only works as you would expect it to if you have NO trim dialed in when you use it. Thus you should neutralize all trim ("*") before hitting "5". For the left-brained among us: Suppose you have 7 units (an arbitrary measure of joystick deflection) of downward trim dialed in to fly level at high speed. You slow down, so you are forced to pull up 2 units on the joystick to maintain level flight. This is annoying, so without knowing any better, you hit the "5" keypad key, thinking this will retrim you for level flight. Your trim setting now switches instantaneously from 7 units down, to 2 units up! Your plane pitches up rapidly and you, startled, begin to curse Spectrum Holobyte for leaving bugs in the trim controls. :^) If "5" reset the trim based on your current trim setting, as almost every MiG-29 player seems to expect, the trim level in the above example would have been reset to (7 - 2) = 5 units of downward trim. Alas, it is not so. So what's the "5" key good for? If you just finish doing some radical maneuvers and your plane's all out of trim anyway, hit "*", level out the plane with the joystick only, then hit "5". In my experience, this will work EVERY TIME. The "5" key is NOT flakey once you understand the brain damaged way it works. When compensating for speed changes in normal flying, use the incremental controls instead (a coolie hat is GREAT for this). Hope this clears up some confusion. Rob opus@ihlpf.att.com ------------------------------- [[ End of digest Volume 4 : Issue 81 ]]